[harikannan]

1C (3D) 4D. What is the best use of this cue bid? Thanks.

[mikeh]

An interesting question, although I suspect that very few pairs will ever have discussed this specific sequence. I don’t recall it ever arising and I’ve played a LOT of bridge. Of course, my memory is imperfect but I can think of many reasons why this would be rare.

In most systems 1C would be 3+…many experienced players use 2+. So responder needs a lot of clubs to have no 5+ major, be unable to double (as eg 4=2=2=5, pulling hearts to clubs), or try 3N. Risking a 5=3 or 5=2 club fit is silly so responder basically needs 6+ clubs.

He also needs a strong hand since he’s forcing to an 11 trick contract opposite an opening that is very often a balanced minimum. It’s unlikely that the preemptor has a 4 card major, and opener would need to be 5=6 to hold a 5 card major. The odds must be in favour of responder having a major (so doubling or bidding 3M) or a diamond stopper (so usually 3N).

While I sometimes use 4D, after agreeing clubs, as keycard but that doesn’t seem right here, on a frequency basis. How often will responder have a hand where he knows what to do over a keycard ask?

So I’d take it as a forcing raise in clubs.

Secondary issue: does it promise a diamond control? I say no. There’s usually room to explore that below 5D so we can always get out in 5C.

[awm]

With most partners I have the agreement that if we open (with a natural suit) and opponents overcall (with a natural suit) then a (non-jump) cuebid of their suit is a forcing raise of opener. That would apply here, so 4♦ would be a forcing (slam-interested) club raise (4♣ would be a competitive/non-forcing club raise). Of course one could make some other agreement, but this seems pretty standard and occasionally useful. I'm pretty sure I've had this auction before too.

[P_Marlowe]

Fit.

With a long suit and gf values, you can bid 3H / 3S.
With a bal. hand you can either bid 3NT or make a T/O aka neg. X.

with kind regards
Marlowe

[harikannan]

How do I invite slam with 6-6 in majors?

[DavidKok]

You can show both your suits by bidding 3♠ and then some level of hearts. This isn't reserved specifically for 'slam invite with 6-6' though - there simply isn't enough bidding space to show this type of hand at a comfortable level anymore.

[mw64ahw]

harikannan, on 2025-August-13, 03:27, said:

How do I invite slam with 6-6 in majors?

5♦

[jillybean]

harikannan, on 2025-August-13, 03:27, said:

How do I invite slam with 6-6 in majors?

Start with a X

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2025-August-13, 11:33, said:

Start with a X

No. Not close. With a reasonable 6=6, which is always true if ‘looking for slam’ bid 3S. What you do next round depends on what happens and exactly what one holds, but often it will be hearts. For example, 1C (3D) 3S (P) 4C (P) then either 4H….non forcing…or 5H….logically forcing

[WasWinM]

It makes little sense to me to use this cue bid as a generic forcing club raise. A simple 4C should be forcing. Crowded cue bids should either tell or ask. As a Club raise it should be a slam invite with either first round control or 2 losers in the suit, whichever your partnership wants to agree on.

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2025-August-13, 14:26, said:

No. Not close. With a reasonable 6=6, which is always true if ‘looking for slam’ bid 3S. What you do next round depends on what happens and exactly what one holds, but often it will be hearts. For example, 1C (3D) 3S (P) 4C (P) then either 4H….non forcing…or 5H….logically forcing

QWhat does 1C (3♦) X show?

[mikeh]

A negative double is only used with hands that cannot make a natural bid for various reasons

The original reasons were that responder lacked either or both of the strength and length for a natural forcing new suit bid

This 1D (1S) x.

Fairly early in the history of negative doubles this became a way of showing hearts. It showed either 4 or 4+.

If responder held 5+ then he lacked the values for a 2H bid

You do NOT bid 2H in that sequence when you have 5+ hearts and whatever your system strength requirements are for a 2 H bid

1D (2C) x. Some might think this shows both majors but that’s not mainstream expert treatment. X shows either both majors or 1 major and good diamond support. Limiting it to both majors causes serious problems. Say you hold AQxx xx AJxxx xx. If x promises hearts as well as spades you can’t double and the spade suit may be lost

But if you held AQxxx xx AJxx xx, you’d bid spades since you have 5+ and the strength to bid.


All of that is by way of saying that negative doubles DENY a 5+ suit with whatever you require for a free bid. Btw that’s why negative free bids fell out of fashion….they inverted the problem…one has to double with a good hand and a good suit and preemption really screws things up

Negative doubles fix a problem. Good hands with good suits aren’t part of that problem and DO NOT use negative doubles

Good hands with suits too short to bid or weaker hands with long suits but not the strength to bid….those are the problems

With a slam oriented 6-6 major hand, you by definition have both the length and the strength to bid your suits


I suggest finding a reasonably good basic 2/1 text because you seem unfamiliar with basic bidding ideas. You’re far from alone in that, even amongst players who’ve been playing for years

Most people ‘learn’ from other club level players, virtually none of whom have a good understanding of basic principles. So we have the uninformed learning from the uninformed. As one of the local experts I admit to some fault here. But I’ve tried teaching at the club and in my experience people may listen, may nod their heads, but they either forget or choose to revert to what they’re used to since pretty much given up teaching

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2025-August-13, 11:33, said:

Start with a X

The problem with X and the cue: they ask p to tell something about their hand.
The adv. of X over the cue: it does not burn a whole level.

Anyway: Ask yourself, what do you expect to do with the most common hand type
a bal. 11-4 count (or 15-17 count), if he hears your bid.

Lets assume you play a strong NT system, i.e. the most common hand type is 11-14
(semi bal.), make it 4333 he hears a neg. X, he does not have a stopper, what is
his bid?

If you can make a descriptive bid, that tells p something specific about your hand,
go for it, your p will be grateful.

[harikannan]

 mw64ahw, on 2025-August-13, 06:45, said:

5♦

Won't that be exclusion blackwood agreeing clubs as trumps?

[pescetom]

For me, with more basic partners (where 4C would be natural NF competitive) 4D is undefined but would probably be taken as a forcing raise.

With better partners I play that 4C is forcing (inviting control-bid) and 4D is RKCB in clubs.

[mw64ahw]

harikannan, on 2025-August-14, 01:07, said:

Won't that be exclusion blackwood agreeing clubs as trumps?

Only if you play exclusion which I tend not to as it consumes too much space.

[WasWinM]

 pescetom, on 2025-August-14, 02:09, said:

For me, with more basic partners (where 4C would be natural NF competitive) 4D is undefined but would probably be taken as a forcing raise.

With better partners I play that 4C is forcing (inviting control-bid) and 4D is RKCB in clubs.

I mean no disrespect: why would anyone play 1C-3D-4C as “competitive”? Sure, 4C making may be the par result but no one gears bidding to get there. 😀

[WasWinM]

 pescetom, on 2025-August-14, 02:09, said:

For me, with more basic partners (where 4C would be natural NF competitive) 4D is undefined but would probably be taken as a forcing raise.

With better partners I play that 4C is forcing (inviting control-bid) and 4D is RKCB in clubs.

I mean no disrespect: why would anyone play 1C-3D-4C as “competitive”? Sure, 4C making may be the par result but no one gears bidding to get there. 😀

[smerriman]

 WasWinM, on 2025-August-14, 12:22, said:

I mean no disrespect: why would anyone play 1C-3D-4C as “competitive”? Sure, 4C making may be the par result but no one gears bidding to get there. 😀

Most basic players wouldn't "gear their bidding" to get to 4 clubs. But if you gave them a weak hand with club length, that's surely what they'd say they wanted to bid.

[pescetom]

 WasWinM, on 2025-August-14, 12:22, said:

I mean no disrespect: why would anyone play 1C-3D-4C as “competitive”? Sure, 4C making may be the par result but no one gears bidding to get there. 😀

I agree, but it's what they were taught and I can help them better in other ways than contradicting their few certainties about bidding, especially when essentially benign (faith in natural logic which says this must be non forcing).