[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2025-October-04, 10:02, said:

23 hcp slams by definition are difficult to bid

It's a pretty good grand so bidding 6 should be possible.

[pescetom]

Our auction described earlier will proceed fine (with no apologies for our systemic choice of putting both 3 and 4 card raises through 2NT).
1S 2NT
3C 3NT
4C 4D
4H 4NT
5C 5D
6S P

West knows partner is Axxx xxx Axx xxx with a Queen somewhere, hopefully in clubs. It's far from sure but at least the lead will probably not hurt.

[2NT is limit raise 3+ cards.
3C checks back and 3NT shows 4333.
4NT shows even keycards. ]

[mike777]

Not a limit raise for me, Mr. Conservative

[pescetom]

mike777, on 2025-October-04, 12:44, said:

Not a limit raise for me, Mr. Conservative

Borderline at MP for me too.

[Huibertus]

jillybean, on 2025-October-04, 09:11, said:

---

This was the auction at the table, the only EW to get to 6

Can you get there on a normal auction?

You should not get there this way. Had ♦Ace been ♥Ace you'd have been the only EW to go down.

The key to this hand is West informing East he has a slam interested black two suiter according to the partnership's agreements to show such a hand. And then for East to evaluate his own hand as very good because of ♣Queen and two aces, and therefore cue ♦ Ace or ♥Ace according to which one he has in his hand. That way 6♠ can be bid and prevented appropriately.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2025-October-04, 09:11, said:

---

This was the auction at the table, the only EW to get to 6

Can you get there on a normal auction?

1♠ :3♣
3♥:4♦
?

1♠:2nt limit +
?

First Auction: 3H? The bid is ok, if it is agreed to be a short suit trial bid.
Otherwise it is just garbage, and 4H is obv., the opening hand will bid game, if
p showes a constr. hand with spade fit.

Second Auction: Show the shortness, and the most simple way is via 4H, again, if
3H is short suit trial bid, go for it, otherwise see above.

Getting to 7S req. being able to ask for 3rd round control in clubs, I would not be
able to do it.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2025-October-04, 09:11, said:

---

This was the auction at the table, the only EW to get to 6

I think the auction is hilarious. Not the first or last time we will see Ace asking used to indicate slam interest and no idea how to proceed, but Gerber (with trumps already set) followed by RKCB to ask exactly the same thing (West is looking at the Queen) is a gem

Or was West meaning long clubs and East just playing safe because unsure, now West uses UI to decide to continue?
If 4♣ really was Gerber then surely West would continue 5♣ here (not that knowing whether or not partner has a King changes much), not the even more pointless RKCB.

[jillybean]

I was North, post game, East asked me about the auction, I do not know West's thoughts here.
I doubt that 4C was intended as Gerber however many players with less experienced partnerships interpret an unexpected 4C bid as Gerber. (panic and freeze Geber)
Following 4S the only method often available is ace ask. They were the only pair to get to 6.

I'd be very happy to get to 6 but I'm not sure how I would get there.

[pescetom]

jillybean, on 2025-October-05, 08:32, said:

I was North, post game, East asked me about the auction, I do not know West's thoughts here.
I doubt that 4C was intended as Gerber however many players with less experienced partnerships interpret an unexpected 4C bid as Gerber. (panic and freeze Geber)
Following 4S the only method often available is ace ask. They were the only pair to get to 6.

I can imagine that East was in good faith responding to both Gerber and RKCB. I can also imagine he was confused by the auction
I'm less comfortable about West. If 4C was not intended as Gerber then why not pass 4S rather than "follow" it?
If there was any hint of UI I would have called the Director to have a look at the auction, and not because sore about them being the only pair to get to 6.

[P_Marlowe]

pescetom, on 2025-October-05, 12:54, said:

I'm less comfortable about West. If 4C was not intended as Gerber then why not pass 4S rather than "follow" it?
<snip>

Given that 4S denies first and second round control in the red suits.
And given that 3C was Bergen, i.e. a mixed raise, you can easily construct hands.
Or was 3C the stronger variant, aka reverse Bergen?

[jillybean]

pescetom, on 2025-October-05, 12:54, said:

I can imagine that East was in good faith responding to both Gerber and RKCB. I can also imagine he was confused by the auction
I'm less comfortable about West. If 4C was not intended as Gerber then why not pass 4S rather than "follow" it?
If there was any hint of UI I would have called the Director to have a look at the auction, and not because sore about them being the only pair to get to 6.

No UI at all.
I’m the Director here

3C was the strong version, perhaps West thought it was natural

[mw64ahw]

Playing 1♠-2N as a low information 4+, lim+ I have the following auction
1♠-2N
3♦ 13/14 BD or 13hcp otherwise - 3♠ 8.5 mod. losers
Now you know you have a low combined hcp, but potentially enough for a slam if partner has the controls so:
4♣ ctrl w. 2+♠ honours - 4♦ ctrl
4♥ void (I play as void showing not last train) - 4N even KCs
6♠
With the low hcp count I doubt I'd look for the grand, but 5♣ followed by 6♣ may set you up.

[Huibertus]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-October-05, 03:21, said:

Second Auction: Show the shortness,

No, you need to enable partner to understand ♣Q is golden and ♦Q is not. So you have to inform him of the two suiter with slam interest. There is no other way to bid slam responsibly.

[mikeh]

In my main partnership we open very light in a major and play constructive raises. So the responding hand is either a very good 2S or a bad strength based 4+ 3D, which fit us is a limit raise based on hcp rather than shape

Paradoxically slam is easier after 2S than 3D. We play 1M 2M 4x, where x is a lower suit, as a slam try based on 2 strong suits, at least 5-5. Responder looks at (edit to correct a typo) top honours and side aces. With two such cover cards, responder cue bids. Otherwise signs off. With an unlikely 3 (edit….mistyped ‘2’) cover cards, responder drives to slam

[jillybean]

I was about to say that any limit raise makes finding slam considerably more difficult, 2S for most pairs in an underbid.
Although, with todays aggressive openings, this is very much a solid constructive raise. hmmm

[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2025-October-06, 11:59, said:

I was about to say that any limit raise makes finding slam considerably more difficult, 2S for most pairs in an underbid.
Although, with todays aggressive openings, this is very much a solid constructive raise. hmmm

I've just picked up an approach which involves putting 3-card minimum limit raises through 2♠. You then rely on partner to make the game try with an appropriate hand.

[mike777]

mikeh, on 2025-October-06, 11:06, said:

In my main partnership we open very light in a major and play constructive raises. So the responding hand is either a very good 2S or a bad strength based 4+ 3D, which fit us is a limit raise based on hcp rather than shape

Paradoxically slam is easier after 2S than 3D. We play 1M 2M 4x, where x is a lower suit, as a slam try based on 2 strong suits, at least 5-5. Responder looks at (edit to correct a typo) top honours and side aces. With two such cover cards, responder cue bids. Otherwise signs off. With an unlikely 3 (edit….mistyped ‘2’) cover cards, responder drives to slam

Could you please give a couple examples of a dead minimum Major suit opening for you?

[mikeh]

mike777, on 2025-October-06, 13:39, said:

Could you please give a couple examples of a dead minimum Major suit opening for you?

Vulnerability matters. NV, esp favourable. AQJxxx xx xx Kx but that’s not uncommon. Partner is more aggressive than I am. KQ10xx x KQxxx xx is ok…I’d be reluctant but I think it’s a winning call in the long run. He’d do it with no qualms.

One issue that anyone, looking to adopt light openings, must accept is that misfitting 13 counts may not warrant a gf response. Which in turn affects how opener deals with what is now a very wide range forcing 1N…we still prefer 1N, by an unpassed hand, as forcing one round.

[DavidKok]

Adding a small card to that first hand to get to 13, neither of those are 'very light' openings. Especially if you need to be NV or even favourable for them. I'm sorry to say, those might have been light at some point but it's completely normal to open those hands now.

[pescetom]

@jillybean just to say that it is impossible to send you a PM (probably you need to clean up).