BBO Discussion Forums: Rise (??) in cheating recently - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 14 Pages +
  • « First
  • 10
  • 11
  • 12
  • 13
  • 14
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Rise (??) in cheating recently

#221 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,224
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2011-February-03, 07:07

Indeed some accusations say more about the accuser than about the accused. Once, playing with a casual partner, rho opened 1NT. I had a running six card spade suit and an outside ace. I doubled, lho inquired, partner said it was for penalties. Three passes later I ran seven tricks. Rho then announced he was going to call the director because the double of a strong no trump supposedly shows 15 or more high card points and I only has 14. Lho talked him out of this director call.

Really I don't see how anyone can say "I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe.
Ken
0

#222 User is offline   wyman 

  • Redoubling with gusto
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,712
  • Joined: 2009-October-19
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV
  • Interests:Math, Bridge, Beer. Often at the same time.

Posted 2011-February-03, 08:16

 kenberg, on 2011-February-03, 07:07, said:

"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe.

Saved as signature. wp sir.
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other.” -- Hamman, re: Wolff
0

#223 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,128
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2011-February-03, 09:23

A suggestion, I made, some years ago, on rec.games.bridge:

On-line sites can easily implement cheat-diagnostic software that randomly injects specially constructed death-trap deals that provide an early-warning system. The software would automatically record, collate, and report anomalous successful outcomes by players/pairs on such deals. A series of such results would suggest further human investigation. Example deals:
  • a poor game/slam makes on slender values because key cards lie well.
  • an excellent game/slam fails because key cards all lie badly
  • a game/slam makes on anti-percentage plays e.g. first round finesse for the queen with ten cards.
You get the idea :)

If the deliberate construction of such deals smacks of entrapment, then perhaps randomly dealt hands could be sifted for suitable candidates.

Psychological advantages of this process are that
  • it is more convincing than accusing opponents after they've performed annoyingly well against you.
  • it actively deters cheats, if publicised.
But he main advantage is that it is automatic and objective: it can assemble a better statistical case.
0

#224 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2011-February-03, 09:41

Good old 2003, when people still cheated on BBO.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#225 User is offline   nigel_k 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,207
  • Joined: 2009-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wellington, NZ

Posted 2011-February-03, 12:34

 Zelandakh, on 2011-February-03, 06:09, said:

Ah, accusations of cheating on BBO are always fun. A couple of days ago my partner was accused of cheating when she alerted a bid as 23+ and when her dummy came down it was 22 hcp with good honour concentration + shape. Goodness knows what this individual would have said had I psyched! If you believe someone is cheating then finish the current hand and leave the table. You should only make the accusation if you are very sure and in that case abuse@bbo.com is probably the correct forum.

As for the finger and foot-tapping incidents, the jury is still out on both. The Italians were not prosecuted for the accustaions (but dividers under the table were brought in and they were quickly dropped from international competition) while there are strong arguments, not to mention whole books, on both sides regarding Reese-Shapiro. Perhaps the most high-profile case of "cheating" in bridge in recent years came from the Norwegian League where the Hels were (loosely) involved in an incident of match fixing (fake score posted for a match that was not played). One of them was briefly suspended and missed a major event. I would also stress that no accusation of cheating at the table has been made here.

Since Helness was not involved in the Norwegian incident at all, maybe you should take your own advice and only make the accusation if you are very sure.
1

#226 User is offline   ggwhiz 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Joined: 2008-June-23
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-February-03, 13:48

I am one that plays most often with my spouse out of the same location. We view this as a privilege and DO NOT CHEAT but are accused of such from time to time.

If our ACBL ranks and tournament record were publicly available, it would be clear as a bell and would save us a lot of grief. We are entitled to our share of good results and balance that with some real stinkers. I can vouch for several pairs of the highest ethical standard in a similar situation. Has there been a rise in cheating or just unfounded allegations?

Maybe make this information available and make it mandatory to quote it in any complaints. It would save BBO staff time and perhaps cut a bunch of unfounded complaints off at the knees. None of us would mind being flagged or pre-alerting our same location status but that might just make the situation worse.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
What is baby oil made of?
0

#227 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,693
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2011-February-03, 17:17

Clearly there are a bazillion cheaters out there. I know this because I sometimes do poorly at the table, and that can't possibly be my fault, or my partner's. :rolleyes:
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
0

#228 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,128
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2011-February-04, 06:31

Several times, on BBO, in pick-up partnerships I (and others) have been been accused of cheating, often by "experts" or "world-class" players, embarrassed by being beaten. Some are so incensed that they leave, mid-hand.

A beneficial side-effect of "early-warning" cheat-diagnostic software is that paranoid prima-donnas may come to realise that a couple of lucky results are unlikely to be accepted as proof that their opponents are cheats.
0

#229 User is offline   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,082
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2011-February-04, 06:30

 nige1, on 2011-February-04, 06:31, said:

Several times, on BBO, in pick-up partnerships I (and others) have been been accused of cheating, often by "experts" or "world-class" players, embarrassed by being beaten. Some are so incensed that they leave, mid-hand.

A beneficial side-effect of "early-warning" cheat-detection software is that paranoid prima donnas may come to realise that a couple of lucky results will not be accepted as conclusive proof that opponents are cheats.

Assigning reasonable behaviour to unreasonable people is probably the sign of an optimist.
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
0

#230 User is offline   ArcLight 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Joined: 2004-July-02
  • Location:Millburn, New Jersey
  • Interests:Rowing. Wargaming. Military history.

Posted 2011-February-04, 07:35

Since I don't play in tournements I don't really have any experience with cheating with respect to the opps sharing their cards (or our cards). However, I frequently see partnerships not divulging their methods, even when asked.

I ask them:
- what lead conventions do you use? (3/5, 4th best? other?)
- what signaling do you use? Attitude? Count? What discards?

Frequently the refuse to answer. I may restate the question to both of them, telling them I haven't receive an answer and need to know before I can play. I occasionally get booted for that. I don't call them names. I do say "its required by the laws of bridge to diclose your partnership agreements". That bets me ejected :-)

So I think deliberate non-disclosure of partnership agreements is quite common. That is a form of cheating, but no where near as bad as telling pard your cards.
0

#231 User is offline   barmar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 21,594
  • Joined: 2004-August-21
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-February-04, 21:35

 ArcLight, on 2011-February-04, 07:35, said:

SSo I think deliberate non-disclosure of partnership agreements is quite common. That is a form of cheating, but no where near as bad as telling pard your cards.

Although it's against the rules, it's rarely what people mean when they accuse people of cheating. I'd refer to it as "not playing fair".

#232 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2011-February-05, 00:33

 barmar, on 2011-February-02, 22:44, said:

When Reese-Shapiro were caught cheating in the 60's, they were considered two of the greats of the game.

However, since the introduction of screens in high-level championships, I think we can be more confident that the greats are honest.


Correction! Wehn R-S were accused, found guilty AND LATER EXONERATED......
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#233 User is offline   mike777 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,826
  • Joined: 2003-October-07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2011-February-05, 01:52

 the hog, on 2011-February-05, 00:33, said:

Correction! Wehn R-S were accused, found guilty AND LATER EXONERATED......



m\no
0

#234 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2011-February-05, 02:37

 mike777, on 2011-February-05, 01:52, said:

m\no


Yes they were. The British Federation held an inquiry and found the charges unproven. Please do not attempt to revise history.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#235 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2011-February-05, 09:03

 Vampyr, on 2011-February-02, 23:34, said:

Yes, Buratti and Lanzarotti. They were suspended for about a week.

For 2 years, and forbidden to play together forever.
0

#236 User is offline   1eyedjack 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,575
  • Joined: 2004-March-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 2011-February-05, 11:49

 the hog, on 2011-February-05, 02:37, said:

Yes they were. The British Federation held an inquiry and found the charges unproven. Please do not attempt to revise history.

Many of the prosecution witnesses did not appear at the British retrial (I believe they were expected to attend at their own expense), and the so called acquittal was not recognised anywhere but in Britain, and certainly not by the body that convicted. Now, you can choose to believe whichever "court" you wish, to call the British result an "exoneration" is as much an attempt at rewriting history as the reverse.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
1

#237 User is offline   Vampyr 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,611
  • Joined: 2009-September-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

Posted 2011-February-05, 22:17

 Fluffy, on 2011-February-05, 09:03, said:

For 2 years, and forbidden to play together forever.

I do not believe it was 2 years in the end.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
0

#238 User is offline   qwery_hi 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 493
  • Joined: 2008-July-10
  • Location:Los Angeles, CA, USA

Posted 2011-February-06, 00:27

I thought this was an interesting read - pinch of salt and all that notwithstanding.

http://cam.bridgeblogging.com/
Alle Menschen werden bruder.

Where were you while we were getting high?
0

#239 User is offline   Gerardo 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 2,493
  • Joined: 2003-February-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dartmouth, NS, Canada

Posted 2011-February-07, 09:43

 qwery_hi, on 2011-February-06, 00:27, said:

I thought this was an interesting read - pinch of salt and all that notwithstanding.

http://cam.bridgeblogging.com/


Starts in http://cam.bridgeblogging.com/?p=9

#240 User is offline   wyman 

  • Redoubling with gusto
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,712
  • Joined: 2009-October-19
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV
  • Interests:Math, Bridge, Beer. Often at the same time.

Posted 2011-February-07, 11:05

Goes until p=17; thanks for posting. This was an interesting read.
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other.” -- Hamman, re: Wolff
0

  • 14 Pages +
  • « First
  • 10
  • 11
  • 12
  • 13
  • 14
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

9 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 9 guests, 0 anonymous users