[Fluffy]

♠AKQ10
♥-
♦J75
♣AJ8653


E-W Vul, MPs, dealer north

N - E - S - O
1♦-3♥-??-4♥
ps-ps-??

[kenrexford]

X...6♦

[pooltuna]

kenrexford, on Aug 22 2009, 08:29 PM, said:

X...6♦

my choices as well

[fred]

Agree with Double, but if you are going to drive to slam at your second turn, isn't 5NT a better idea? Not exactly unlikely that you belong in clubs or spades. I don't think it is reasonable expect partner to correct a jump to 6D to 6S especially since, if he has 4 spades, you know his spade suit is very weak.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[kenrexford]

fred, on Aug 22 2009, 08:45 PM, said:

Agree with Double, but if you are going to drive to slam at your second turn, isn't 5NT a better idea? Not exactly unlikely that you belong in clubs or spades. I don't think it is reasonable expect partner to correct a jump to 6D to 6S especially since, if he has 4 spades, you know his spade suit is very weak.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

I thought about that, but I really don't want partner correcting to spades with four small, because spades probably split 4-1 with the opponents bidding like this at these colors. After a heart lead, we are in trouble. If 5NT introduces spades back, that seems like a bad thing.

[karlson]

Wow, am I going to be the only vote for double at my second turn? I thought it was even pretty clear. We're white on red, and we have little sensible way of figuring out if we should be in 5, 6, or 7, so I'll be quite happy if partner chooses to sit it out. If he pulls, I think it's a much better bet that slam is on, and we might even know what strain it's in.

If you're not going to double, seems like you might as well bid 4n, not to get to spades, which I doubt partner has anyway (I would expect him to bid 4s over 4h with most hands with 4 spades), but to get to clubs (why can't partner be 4-4 in the minors?)

[Cascade]

kenrexford, on Aug 23 2009, 02:26 PM, said:

fred, on Aug 22 2009, 08:45 PM, said:

Agree with Double, but if you are going to drive to slam at your second turn, isn't 5NT a better idea? Not exactly unlikely that you belong in clubs or spades. I don't think it is reasonable expect partner to correct a jump to 6D to 6S especially since, if he has 4 spades, you know his spade suit is very weak.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

I thought about that, but I really don't want partner correcting to spades with four small, because spades probably split 4-1 with the opponents bidding like this at these colors. After a heart lead, we are in trouble. If 5NT introduces spades back, that seems like a bad thing.

It could be clubs or diamonds that are not breaking well. The 5=1 break in diamonds will probably not be friendly.

Put me down for a second double.

If 4♣ was natural and forcing on the first round then that might be better. Particularly if we are worried about bad breaks in a 4=4 spade fit. I would like slightly better clubs for 4♣. Why double if you don't want to hear partner bid your four-card suit?

[rd6789]

X...5C - any reason p cant have a boring 3343 12 count

[MFA]

5NT.

I have big respect for voids in competition. If I knew my opponents and have a reason to suspect that they are colourblind, I might be convinced to double instead.

[655321]

Double the first time.

Don't like a second double with no hearts because very often partner will leave it in when bidding will work better. Instead, the 5NT bid suggested in other posts sounds good to me.

[skjaeran]

x...5NT for me. If partner is relatively balanced, clubs play better than diamonds.

[Fluffy]

partner picked 4♣ then 4♠ wich was horrible because I passed that with

♠J9xx
♥Q
♦AQ10xxxx
♣K

If you start with double you will soon be in slam, maybe in 7 but that's ok because it makes.

[Cascade]

Fluffy, on Aug 24 2009, 10:50 AM, said:

partner picked 4♣ then 4♠ wich was horrible because I passed that with

♠J9xx
♥Q
♦AQ10xxxx
♣K

If you start with double you will soon be in slam, maybe in 7 but that's ok because it makes.

Four trumps, great ♣K, good diamond suit and stiff heart. Not sure I could bring myself to PASS.

[MFA]

MFA, on Aug 23 2009, 01:23 PM, said:

5NT.

I have big respect for voids in competition. If I knew my opponents and have a reason to suspect that they are colourblind, I might be convinced to double instead.

Oh, didn't notice that the first bid also was for discussion.

X then 5NT.

[Fluffy]

Cascade, on Aug 23 2009, 10:56 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Aug 24 2009, 10:50 AM, said:

partner picked 4♣ then 4♠ wich was horrible because I passed that with

♠J9xx
♥Q
♦AQ10xxxx
♣K

If you start with double you will soon be in slam, maybe in 7 but that's ok because it makes.

Four trumps, great ♣K, good diamond suit and stiff heart. Not sure I could bring myself to PASS.

I rather thought that I had awful 4 trumps (on a known 4-4 fit against heavy vulnerable preemption), my opening values consist in a stiff Q and a stiff K and a long suit that won't dream of having the entries to get stablished.

A matter of semantics? . I think my pass was right, but maybe I am wrong, await more opinions.

[cherdanno]

Fluffy, on Aug 23 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

Cascade, on Aug 23 2009, 10:56 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Aug 24 2009, 10:50 AM, said:

partner picked 4♣ then 4♠ wich was horrible because I passed that with

♠J9xx
♥Q
♦AQ10xxxx
♣K

If you start with double you will soon be in slam, maybe in 7 but that's ok because it makes.

Four trumps, great ♣K, good diamond suit and stiff heart. Not sure I could bring myself to PASS.

I rather thought that I had awful 4 trumps (on a known 4-4 fit against heavy vulnerable preemption), my opening values consist in a stiff Q and a stiff K and a long suit that won't dream of having the entries to get stablished.

A matter of semantics? . I think my pass was right, but maybe I am wrong, await more opinions.

Clear pass IMO.

[MFA]

Yep, clear pass in Fluffy's sequence.

Edit: For starters partner needs 3 key cards + ♠Q. And then there is all the handling and possible bad breaks.

[Cascade]

I think partner needs something pretty special to bid past 3NT with four spades when you consider they could have started with a much more flexible negative double.

♠ AKxx
...
♣ AQxxxx

would be very minimum (with this shape) I think.

[cherdanno]

Cascade, on Aug 23 2009, 08:04 PM, said:

I think partner needs something pretty special to bid past 3NT with four spades when you consider they could have started with a much more flexible negative double.

♠ AKxx
...
♣ AQxxxx

would be very minimum (with this shape) I think.

Do you ever reconsider your opinion before making another posting supporting it? You do realize that opposite this hand, with ♥x ♦xx, you definitely don't want to be higher than 4♠?
If you did, what was the point of your post?

[Cascade]

Perhaps I didn't quite use the right words. I meant to suggest that that hand might double. So I would expect more for 4♣ followed by the 4♠ bid.