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This is your third hand with a pick up partner who you have agreed to play 2/1 with.
Do you bid 3♦, pass, or something else as South?
Bid out Shape or Pass
#1
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Posted 2009-August-28, 00:46
This is your third hand with a pick up partner who you have agreed to play 2/1 with.
Do you bid 3♦, pass, or something else as South?
#2
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Posted 2009-August-28, 01:21
Pass.
And when I pass, you know it's right.
And when I pass, you know it's right.
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.
Best Regards Ole Berg
_____________________________________
We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:
- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.
Gnasher
#3
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2009-August-28, 01:35
Partner didn't open 2♥, so he's more likely to be 2-5 in the majors than 1-6. I'd bid 2♠.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2009-August-28, 01:57
I pass. There may be hands that are unsuitable for a preempt at first seat red. 1-6 may be more unlikely than 2-5 but there are also 0/1-5 too. Even if partner is 2-5 it may be better for hearts to be trumps since I have a very helping queen.
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#5
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Posted 2009-August-28, 07:05
jmc, on Aug 28 2009, 01:46 AM, said:
Scoring: IMP
North passes. East opens 1♣ and South bids 1♠. West passes and North bids 2♥ which passes around to South.
North passes. East opens 1♣ and South bids 1♠. West passes and North bids 2♥ which passes around to South.
This is your third hand with a pick up partner who you have agreed to play 2/1 with.
Do you bid 3♦, pass, or something else as South?
smells like a misfit so I pass
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the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
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#6
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Posted 2009-August-28, 08:17
Its a clear pass if partner wasn't a passed hand, but given that he is not I agree with gnasher that our best spot is somewhere else.
2♠, hopefully partner doesn't have diamonds.
2♠, hopefully partner doesn't have diamonds.
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Posted 2009-August-28, 08:23
Fluffy, on Aug 29 2009, 01:17 AM, said:
Its a clear pass if partner wasn't a passed hand, but given that he is not I agree with gnasher that our best spot is somewhere else.
2♠, hopefully partner doesn't have diamonds.
2♠, hopefully partner doesn't have diamonds.
North passes and then North bids 2♥
- Andy -
We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
#8
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Posted 2009-August-28, 08:58
that's what I meant andy 
#9
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Posted 2009-August-28, 09:15
100% obvious pass.
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Posted 2009-August-28, 10:07
The_Hog, on Aug 28 2009, 10:15 AM, said:
100% obvious 2S
FYP
#11
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Posted 2009-August-28, 12:44
I think its a good time to learn transfer advance.
If not i would assume 2H shows 5H and 2S or 5H and 5m.
If not i would assume 2H shows 5H and 2S or 5H and 5m.
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For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
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For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
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#12
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Posted 2009-August-28, 12:46
OK what do you do over 2♦ transfer? How is it better?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
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Posted 2009-August-28, 13:10
3♦.
IMO, I think it is losing bridge at IMP scoring for advancer to make a call that forces us into a high-reverse to show the fourth suit unless Advancer is prepared for that call when Overcaller has values. AQ-A in 5-5 suits, with the stiff Queen in the right spot, qualifies as values, IMO.
If Advancer were, say, to bid 2♦ instead, which does not force a three-level call in the fourth suit, then I think Responder can be slightly weaker. In this sequence, smelling a problem for us is easy for Advancer. If he has that strange hand where there is no spade tolerance, no ability to field a three-level diamond call, no club stop (making 1NT more appealing), and insufficient hearts to open 2♥ in the first place, Advancer passes. That simple.
The alternative approach, IMO, means that we miss too many games at IMP scoring just to improve an undoubled partscore to a level higher in a suit that may well not fare better and that cannot be all that impressive anyway. By "undoubled," I mean that Advancer is not barred, if he passes, from bidding 2♥ is 1♠-X comes back at him.
IMO, I think it is losing bridge at IMP scoring for advancer to make a call that forces us into a high-reverse to show the fourth suit unless Advancer is prepared for that call when Overcaller has values. AQ-A in 5-5 suits, with the stiff Queen in the right spot, qualifies as values, IMO.
If Advancer were, say, to bid 2♦ instead, which does not force a three-level call in the fourth suit, then I think Responder can be slightly weaker. In this sequence, smelling a problem for us is easy for Advancer. If he has that strange hand where there is no spade tolerance, no ability to field a three-level diamond call, no club stop (making 1NT more appealing), and insufficient hearts to open 2♥ in the first place, Advancer passes. That simple.
The alternative approach, IMO, means that we miss too many games at IMP scoring just to improve an undoubled partscore to a level higher in a suit that may well not fare better and that cannot be all that impressive anyway. By "undoubled," I mean that Advancer is not barred, if he passes, from bidding 2♥ is 1♠-X comes back at him.
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#14
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Posted 2009-August-28, 15:30
Side Bar for this hand.
It is made for Rubens Transfer Advances.
( Perhaps they have been discussed in this forum previously ).
For this hand ALL of the transfer bids exist for Advancer ( North ):
West North East South
- - p 1C 1S
p ??
2C! = transfer to 2D
2D! = " 2H
2H! = " 2S
2S = 3 card raise, less than limit raise.
3C! = (single-jump cue) constructive raise ( 7-9 hcp ) w/4 trumps
If Advancer bids 2D! transfer to 2H, and then bids 2S, it shows
a 2 card Sp raise w/ reasonable values . ( I wonder if Advancer had such a hand here ! ! )
Fit-jumps ( 3D! and 3H! ) are also in play showing 4 cd limit raises.
And a jump-cue to the 4-level ( 4C! ) would be a splinter.
It is made for Rubens Transfer Advances.
( Perhaps they have been discussed in this forum previously ).
For this hand ALL of the transfer bids exist for Advancer ( North ):
West North East South
- - p 1C 1S
p ??
2C! = transfer to 2D
2D! = " 2H
2H! = " 2S
2S = 3 card raise, less than limit raise.
3C! = (single-jump cue) constructive raise ( 7-9 hcp ) w/4 trumps
If Advancer bids 2D! transfer to 2H, and then bids 2S, it shows
a 2 card Sp raise w/ reasonable values . ( I wonder if Advancer had such a hand here ! ! )
Fit-jumps ( 3D! and 3H! ) are also in play showing 4 cd limit raises.
And a jump-cue to the 4-level ( 4C! ) would be a splinter.
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
#15
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Posted 2009-August-28, 16:58
gwnn, on Aug 28 2009, 07:46 PM, said:
OK what do you do over 2♦ transfer? How is it better?
Put dummy down?
OK, transfers are better because with 2-5 in the majors responder can transfer to hearts and then bid 2♠.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2009-August-28, 18:06
I'd definitely expect a passed-hand 2♥ advance to have spade tolerance.
2♠
2♠
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Posted 2009-August-28, 19:15
benlessard, on Aug 29 2009, 01:44 AM, said:
I think its a good time to learn transfer advance.
If not i would assume 2H shows 5H and 2S or 5H and 5m.
If not i would assume 2H shows 5H and 2S or 5H and 5m.
How do transfer advances help?
Why can't responder have a 5431 shape?
In fact why cant responder have
x 234567 Qx AKxx ? Would you open 2H on a suit headed by the 7 and ever single honour card outside?
Lobowolf:
"I'd definitely expect a passed-hand 2♥ advance to have spade tolerance. "
Why?
Anyone for a Roman Jump overcall over 1C?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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Posted 2009-August-28, 20:02
The_Hog, on Aug 28 2009, 08:15 PM, said:
benlessard, on Aug 29 2009, 01:44 AM, said:
I think its a good time to learn transfer advance.
If not i would assume 2H shows 5H and 2S or 5H and 5m.
If not i would assume 2H shows 5H and 2S or 5H and 5m.
How do transfer advances help?
Why can't responder have a 5431 shape?
In fact why cant responder have
x 234567 Qx AKxx ? Would you open 2H on a suit headed by the 7 and ever single honour card outside?
Lobowolf:
"I'd definitely expect a passed-hand 2♥ advance to have spade tolerance. "
Why?
Anyone for a Roman Jump overcall over 1C?
With that hand (234567 in hearts), Responder seems well-suited for a pass. As hearts are expected to split 4-2, 2♥ does not fare well. four heart losers, two club losers, and 1/2 of a diamond loser. Probably down one or two.
1♠, if passed out, probably fares OK. one heart loser, one diamond loser, and then whatever it takes to bring in diamonds and spades. If diamonds split 4-2 poorly, you may still elope a few heart ruffs.
At IMP scoring, then, not bad to pass.
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#19
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Posted 2009-August-29, 00:58
Why 2 C losers? On a non trump lead....
Anyway this is all hypothetical.
Anyway this is all hypothetical.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#20
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Posted 2009-August-29, 01:27
The_Hog, on Aug 29 2009, 02:15 AM, said:
How do transfer advances help?
Why can't responder have a 5431 shape?
In fact why cant responder have
x 234567 Qx AKxx ?
Why can't responder have a 5431 shape?
In fact why cant responder have
x 234567 Qx AKxx ?
I think that hand shows why transfers do help. With x 234567 Qx AKxx, advancer transfers, overcaller bids 2♥, and advancer passes. With Jx A10xxx Qxx Kxx, advancer transfers and bids 2♠.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
North passes. East opens 1♣ and South bids 1♠. West passes and North bids 2♥ which passes around to South.