[Fluffy]

[matmat]

Fluffy, on Jul 14 2010, 06:07 PM, said:

the "life" bar should go down even more on impact with the ground...

[NickRW]

I have to say that I was brought up at a time when football was a bit more of a man's game than it is these days. But even I have to say that Vinnie Jones would have been proud of that one.

[gwnn]

Xabi Alonso is my favourite player (both because of the way he plays and because I can easily explain my name to people using his), that really hurt. Note that unlike Xavi and a few other Spanish players, he really is hurt when he acts hurt on the ground. I don't understand how some Dutch people think the referee helped Spain when he didn't send off de Jong; also I don't understand how de Jong isn't suspended for, say, 5 games of international football.

[Hanoi5]

I think the orange 6 (I don't quite remember his name) notices what happens and makes a little face. Or he just follows the ball?... But I think he notices something and turns his head...

[hanp]

gwnn, on Jul 15 2010, 05:13 AM, said:

Xabi Alonso is my favourite player (both because of the way he plays and because I can easily explain my name to people using his), that really hurt. Note that unlike Xavi and a few other Spanish players, he really is hurt when he acts hurt on the ground. I don't understand how some Dutch people think the referee helped Spain when he didn't send off de Jong; also I don't understand how de Jong isn't suspended for, say, 5 games of international football.

If you'd read the Dutch newspapers you'd see that they agree with you.

This should have been a red card, and there was a good case for sending off Robben as well (and maybe van Bommel too?). From what I heard the yellow card of van Bronkhorst was nonsense but it didn't affect the game. I also heard that Iniesta should have received his second yellow for retaliating, and I saw clearly that just before the Spanish goal the Netherlands should have gotten a corner. That was pretty crucial with 4-5 minutes on the clock.

In the end, it could have gone both ways but the Spanish team was clearly better. The referee made a lot of extremely bad decisions, but the decisions were bad both ways. It's no coincidence that the Dutch team received 9 yellow cards, they made a lot of fouls to stop the Spanish attacks.

[Aberlour10]

I suppose, the Dutchmen watched very detailed the first half of the match Germany-Spain , and made their conclusions>>> " we cannot allow the Spaniards to move so free...etc etc" >>> but the dirty way they tried to reach it surprised me completely, I watched xxx of their matches, there was not a single one, where they did nearly so vicious.
With one exception, van Bommel shows this "way" every Saturday in the Bundesliga, playing for the FC Bayern, he should become many more red cards, but most of the refs show usually only the yellow one ( Bayern bonus...)
If he ever writes his football memoirs...."Winning Ugly"would be a good title for it.

[gwnn]

Quote

I watched xxx of their matches, there was not a single one, where they did nearly so vicious.

Portugal vs Netherlands from 4 years ago?

[Aberlour10]

gwnn, on Jul 15 2010, 09:59 AM, said:

Quote

I watched xxx of their matches, there was not a single one, where they did nearly so vicious.

Portugal vs Netherlands from 4 years ago?

From the number of bookings surely...

Portugal : 2 red, 7 yellow
Netherland: 2 red, 5 yellow

but..so far I can remember this match, the brutality of the fouls wasn't nearly so high as in last final.. and several of these cards has been shown for tactical hand play..

[andrei]

I really don't understand why so many people are saying that the Dutch were playing "brutal, vicious" football in the final. De Jong's tackle on Alonso was bad, but was it worse than Caceres' on DeZeeuw in the semifinal?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/07/09/week-in...m-in-cape-town/

Caceres was given a yellow card and I don't remember anybody saying afterwards that he was a criminal and he deserved to be sent off or suspended for multiple games.

Van Bommel was fouling a lot, the Dutch committed more fouls(28-19, and since Spain had 60% of posesion it evens oout even more), but again which other one was brutal? And it should have been at least 20 for Spain, since right before the goal Eljia was sandwiched between Ramos and Fabregas at the edge of the Spain box, clear foul, not given, Spain counter-attacked and scored.

The referee was very bad, especially in extra time (Eljia foul, corner not given, Iniesta dive when Heitinga is sent off - just watch in slow motion how Heitinga has his hand on Iniesta's shoulder for a second and immediately AFTER he takes it off the shoulder Iniesta is extending his arm towards the back and falls off in a "he was pulling my arm" fashion) so the English media, to save face, started all this "ohh the Dutch were playing rugby in the final".

I am sure there are lots of games when one team have 9 (8??) more fouls than the other team and we don't get all this "ohh they played dirty" thing.

[NickRW]

andrei, on Jul 15 2010, 04:29 PM, said:

I really don't understand why so many people are saying that the Dutch were playing "brutal, vicious" football...

I don't think that the Dutch were particularly vicious per se - that implies they were doing it with some degree of premeditation. What I think they were trying to do was simply play a pressing game - which always runs the risks of some extras fouls - plus they were 'really up for it' as would any team be in the finals.

The ref had a difficult game to referee. Not saying he didn't get anything wrong - but I find it hard to imagine that anyone would have done a perfect job under the circumstances.

Nick

[cherdanno]

Besides de Jong's chest-kick there was also a very bad tackle by (I think) van Bommel earlier where he slid with both his feet into a Spanish player; I was surprised he did not see a red card for that. There were quite a few similar fouls that weren't quite as bad and got a well-deserved yellow card. Overall I did think the Dutch were way too aggressive, I thought it was ugly to watch and given that they were twice lucky not to receive a red card in the first half I also can't believe it's the percentage play to make.

[andrei]

Here is the video for Van Bommel's yellow card:

http://www.101greatg...isplay/6230864/

Should this be a straight red?


Anyway, I liked this the most (even better than Iniesta's dive when Heitinga was sent off): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=hcV04f2mDP4

Watch how injured Iniesta is after the tackle and how quickly he gets up when there is no foul called.

That's why I disagree with the idea that the Dutch played dirty or brutal, they played aggressively and Spanish players dived and complained all the time.

[cherdanno]

andrei, on Jul 16 2010, 10:04 PM, said:

Here is the video for Van Bommel's yellow card:

http://www.101greatg...isplay/6230864/

Should this be a straight red?

I thought sliding in from behind with both feets is a red card. (Although seeing the replay I am not quite sure whether it's the foul I meant.)

About the Iniesta "dive" - yeah maybe he could get up sooner, but I also know it hurts to get hit with studs, and it would take me much longer to get up. I take it you play soccer and get up right away when you get hit with someone's studs?

[hanp]

Stop it Arend, you are just upset because my country is better at soccer than yours.

[cherdanno]

hanp, on Jul 17 2010, 05:33 PM, said:

Stop it Arend, you are just upset because my country is better at soccer than yours.

Indeed (43 minutes better?), and you should be glad you aren't reading my posts after a German-Dutch final

[JLOGIC]

han on cherdano violence

[Fluffy]

andrei, on Jul 15 2010, 04:29 PM, said:

Van Bommel was fouling a lot, the Dutch committed more fouls(28-19, and since Spain had 60% of posesion it evens oout even more), but again which other one was brutal?

This one:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=elD7bcA_ZoI

EDIT: sorry I read now that you already posted it sorry.


And who said Iniesta fought back?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=hcV04f2mDP4

Iniesta clearly did nothing at all.


I admit that Pujol was the guy who might deserve a second yellow card, but perhaps that was too much for a referee that wasn't showing second yellow cards to any dutch who deserved it also.

[hotShot]

Paul died, who is going to make reliable predictions in soccer now?

[gwnn]

A great loss