[gurgistan]

Scoring: IMP

I am East. Uncontested auction with the bidding going 2♣ 2♦ 2♥ 4♥ 4N P. I bid 4N because it instictively occurred to me that if Partner can show one Ace I have a small slam and if he cannot then my retreat to 5♥ is safe. Partner thought 4N a spot to play in because he had no Aces but thought it a "gamble". This hand is the catalyst for this post.

Clearly, Partner is not Advanced but his self-description says that he is. There are some players who describe themselves as Intermediate but are Advanced (though they are rare). Today, I even played one hand with a Novice whose card play (at least for that hand) was anything but novice-like.

I played on BBO for two whole months before I decided to describe myself as Advanced and even now I think I am at the bottom end of that description.

I used to play on yahoo and nearly everyone thought themselves Advanced but it is not so bad here at BBO despite today's events.

For most players, it does seem that self-definition is self-delusion. Discuss.

---

[manudude03]

Most players overrate themselves, thats been generally accepted (I'd estimate about 70%). As for the hand posted, a lot of people play a 4♥ jump denies an outside A or K so 4NT as RKC isn't needed in that case.

FWIW I've resigned myself to putting expert in my profile but really consider myself advanced.

[gurgistan]

A related point is that when players define themselves they usually do so based on their cardplay and not their bidding. My last regular partner (before we fell out lol) has far superior to myself in his cardplay but had a much smaller edge over me when it came to bidding. Indeed, he improved my cardplay and I improved his bidding (simply by introducing to newer, more precise, methods).

[TylerE]

If I was gonna be snarky, I'd say one who bids 4N here to bid 6 holding all keycards really shouldn't be throwing stones here...

[Phil]

TylerE, on Jul 30 2010, 12:00 PM, said:

If I was gonna be snarky, I'd say one who bids 4N here to bid 6 holding all keycards really shouldn't be throwing stones here...

Please be snarky, there isn't enough of that around here

4N makes no sense, but its possible to construct a hand with a doubleton diamond in West, 4 trump and 2-4 clubs where 6 is good.

[kfay]

Your partner's jump to 4♥ denies any As or Ks, in general.

[gurgistan]

It seem to be a case of Physician, Heal Thy Self!

[matmat]

kfay, on Jul 30 2010, 12:06 PM, said:

Your partner's jump to 4♥ denies any As or Ks, in general.

This.

your partner denied an ace or king, so you thought you'd ask again?

[gurgistan]

matmat, on Jul 30 2010, 03:41 PM, said:

kfay, on Jul 30 2010, 12:06 PM, said:

Your partner's jump to 4♥ denies any As or Ks, in general.

This.

your partner denied an ace or king, so you thought you'd ask again?

I am not a very experienced player [cf How To Respond To A 2♣ Opener] and we had not agreed a system but I do have my retreat to 5♥. Which as can be seen is clearly good.

Nowhere is 4N said to be a stopping point. I bid a suit so he knows I have an unbalanced hand.

[jillybean]

gurgistan, on Jul 30 2010, 10:50 PM, said:

I am not a very experienced player [cf How To Respond To A 2♣ Opener] and we had not agreed a system but I do have my retreat to 5♥. Which as can be seen is clearly good.

Nowhere is 4N said to be a stopping point. I bid a suit so he knows I have an unbalanced hand.

Perhaps it would be best to keep an open mind and listen to the experienced players here.

[matmat]

Quote

I played on BBO for two whole months before I decided to describe myself as Advanced

Quote

I am not a very experienced player

[gurgistan]

jillybean, on Jul 31 2010, 01:00 AM, said:

Perhaps it would be best to keep an open mind and listen to the experienced players here.

Yes. This is what I am here for.

[gurgistan]

matmat, on Jul 31 2010, 01:26 AM, said:

Quote

I played on BBO for two whole months before I decided to describe myself as Advanced

Quote

I am not a very experienced player

Are you a troll?

[peachy]

Deleted. OP is not open to reason, I see.

[gurgistan]

peachy, on Jul 31 2010, 01:45 AM, said:

Unless you had the SAYC style structure agreed, 4H said "partner, I have nothing". If responder had had an ace or even a side king, he would have bid 3H, unless there was some danger that you might Pass 3H.

Thank you for this post peachy.

I have just looked at my notes for 2♣ openers and they are confused.

I have also started a thread on 2 ♣ responses and I will iron out my difficulties in it.

[CSGibson]

Private
This indicates you do not wish a skill level to be displayed when people view your profile information.
Novice
Someone who recently learnt to play bridge
Beginner
Someone who has played bridge for less than one year
Intermediate
Someone who is comparable in skill to most other members of Bridge Base Online
Advanced
Someone who has been consistently successful in clubs or minor tournaments
Expert
Someone who as enjoyed success in major national tournaments
World Class
Someone who has represented their country in World Championships

So, you think that after two months of BBO, you qualified for an advanced ranking? Did you enjoy consistent success in club games or minor tournaments during that time (Open games only please; I don't care about your success in the 299er game)? Is 2 months a long enough evaluation period to determine consistent success?

I have a real problem with people who don't understand basic bidding passsing judgment on the skill level of others. Yes, partner should not have passed you in 4N, but did he pass because he didn't understand what you were asking, or because he was so frustrated that you obviously did not understand common bidding sequences, and passed out of spite?

[matmat]

gurgistan, on Jul 31 2010, 01:42 AM, said:

matmat, on Jul 31 2010, 01:26 AM, said:

Quote

I played on BBO for two whole months before I decided to describe myself as Advanced

Quote

I am not a very experienced player

Are you a troll?

possibly, though I thought I was just pointing out the slight hypocrisy in your posts

[qwery_hi]

matmat, on Jul 30 2010, 11:26 PM, said:

gurgistan, on Jul 31 2010, 01:42 AM, said:

matmat, on Jul 31 2010, 01:26 AM, said:

Quote

I played on BBO for two whole months before I decided to describe myself as Advanced

Quote

I am not a very experienced player

Are you a troll?

possibly, though I thought I was just pointing out the slight hypocrisy in your posts

OP didn't see the contradiction, two months is sufficient restraint compared to the two weeks most people need to advance up from intermediate.

[hotShot]

CSGibson, on Jul 31 2010, 08:09 AM, said:

Private
This indicates you do not wish a skill level to be displayed when people view your profile information.
Novice
Someone who recently learnt to play bridge
Beginner
Someone who has played bridge for less than one year
Intermediate
Someone who is comparable in skill to most other members of Bridge Base Online
Advanced
Someone who has been consistently successful in clubs or minor tournaments
Expert
Someone who as enjoyed success in major national tournaments
World Class
Someone who has represented their country in World Championships

So, you think that after two months of BBO, you qualified for an advanced ranking?  Did you enjoy consistent success in club games or minor tournaments during that time (Open games only please; I don't care about your success in the 299er game)?  Is 2 months a long enough evaluation period to determine consistent success?

Please note that the definitions allow a wide range of skills.

Take a look at World Class and tell me that someone who represented e.g. USA or Italy has the same strength as someone who represented some unsuccessful participant.

Look at local clubs. I know a club who's regular club game has 3 tables and another who has 100 tables. If that 3 table club is not the Former World Champions Club, being successful in that kind of club means nothing.


If you join BBO and you feel that you are clearly better than the intermediates you met, what are you supposed to do?

[gordontd]

Since ♦K is enough for slam, isn't there a case for bidding 5♣ after 4♥?