[lamford]

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Seniors Camrose.

You are playing a fairly simple system, Acol with three weak twos. Do you co-operate here?

[ggwhiz]

I play strong notrumps with multiple super accepts and having not made one, a 4♥ cue on an auction like this is easy.

I would think that not cueing in this structure is a dereliction of duty but have lukewarm ambitions.

[FelicityR]

ggwhiz, on 2018-May-19, 13:03, said:

I play strong notrumps with multiple super accepts and having not made one, a 4♥ cue on an auction like this is easy.

I would think that not cueing in this structure is a dereliction of duty but have lukewarm ambitions.

Agree. It's a poor hand but partner is driving the auction. You have first round controls in both the suits not bid and your 1NT opener didn't promise any more than you have. Cue 4♥.

[apollo1201]

Unless the splinter says « miracle slam if we fit well », we have to cue. The hand is definitely not great but 2 aces and the SJ - it could be worse. If partner runs out of steam and bids 4S next, I’ll pass with the sense of having done my duties.

[lamford]

apollo1201, on 2018-May-19, 14:31, said:

Unless the splinter says « miracle slam if we fit well », we have to cue. The hand is definitely not great but 2 aces and the SJ - it could be worse. If partner runs out of steam and bids 4S next, I’ll pass with the sense of having done my duties.

Thanks all. I shall accept the view that I did too much on this one with AKQTxxx Qxx x Qxx and the slam we reached was hopeless. My view at the time was that partner should not cue with QJx in the splinter suit, and I moved on because I was making slam opposite as little as xxx Ax xxx AKxxx. People thought I should splinter and then bid 4S. I will accept the majority view and as Hamman says "Don't play me for perfect cards, I never have them."

[wank]

partner shouldn't cue. a splinter (unless you're planning to bid on) should tell partner you need no wastage at all in the splinter suit. here 1/4 of the hand is down the toilet. aces in other suits are a mirage - responder is not expected to be short there.
still, you did too much too.

[MrAce]

lamford, on 2018-May-19, 12:18, said:

You are playing a fairly simple system, Acol with three weak twos. Do you co-operate here?

I'd bid 4♥. I really hate rejecting with 2 aces just because my QJx ♦ is wasted.
Splinters are one of the worst conventions regarding the accuracy.
Pd would never play me for holding 2 aces outside the ♦ suit if I reject with an already limited hand. That helps a lot particularly if he is void in ♦.
Also helps not going to 5 level in some other hands when I reject.


AQTxxxx
QTx
Void
Kxx

To me this is dangerous even at 5 level if pd rejects. This hand is not even such a great hand for 4♠ let alone slam, if pd has a lot of wasted ♦ values. Kx xxxx AKJx Jxx for example. We do not hold that hand in your OP.

[rmnka447]

I'm also cueing 4 ♥ in a close decision. I do have some wasted values, but partner is in control of the auction and is still unlimited.

You need 3+ cover cards from partner for slam to be even close to a good bet. But the splinter makes it difficult to find out if partner has them because of the bidding space chewed up. With the void, you need that space for cueing to identify the potential cover cards.

[mr1303_2]

I'm a strong believer in that easy cue bids (below 4 of the agreed major) should be given fairly liberally, but above it should imply a lack of wastage. Here 4H is easy to give, but if my only cue was 5C I would not make it.

Here responder should just bid 4S after 4H. 1. You have nothing else to cue anyway and 2. You need the perfect hand for slam to be good. If partner has it he will continue.

[ahydra]

I think I agree with the above. Things can get a bit murky, but it's often possible to show a mild slam try by cueing and then signing off. If you play this style, then partner should be obliged to cue below game in case you have a stronger hand. So after 4D, it should go 4H; 4S-p, 4H being a forced cue and 4S showing only a mild slam try, rejected by opener due to the wastage and overall poor hand for spades.

ahydra

[lamford]

wank, on 2018-May-19, 16:51, said:

partner shouldn't cue. a splinter (unless you're planning to bid on) should tell partner you need no wastage at all in the splinter suit. here 1/4 of the hand is down the toilet. aces in other suits are a mirage - responder is not expected to be short there.
still, you did too much too.

This is, in my view, the only sensible comment and comes not unexpectedly from perhaps the strongest player. Forrester thought I did too much as well, and in his inimitable manner asked if we were playing a strong no-trump but I did a simulation with only the following criteria:

Partner had 2-3 spades
Partner has 0-1 points in diamonds
Partner has both rounded suit aces.

This come out with the matrix 65 25 10 for 12 tricks, 11 tricks and 10 tricks.

If you give partner 0-2 points in diamonds we get a new matrix:
44 43 10 3, for 12, 11, 10 and 9 tricks

Now slam makes 44% of the time. And when we make that 0-3 points in diamonds,slam drops to 20%. So, as wank says, the diamond holding is crucial and this is what you are being asked.

[Tramticket]

For me, a splinter is a limited bid. You are not unlimited and you can be too strong for a splinter. A splinter tells partner about your shape and suggests that there may be a slam opposite a suitable hand - it is asking you to look at the playing strength of the hand in the context of the shortage and is not just asking you to look at controls. In responding to a splinter you tell partner whether you are suitable:
- sign off in 4M - not suitable.
- cue bid below game - some suitability.
- RKCB / cue bid above game - definitely suitable if all controls are present.

Looking at this particular hand, I think that the wasted QJ of diamonds as well as the dohbleton trump support means that the hand is not very suitable - even with the two aces.

A long-winded way of saying that I agree with Wank.

[rmnka447]

ahydra, on 2018-May-20, 03:28, said:

I think I agree with the above. Things can get a bit murky, but it's often possible to show a mild slam try by cueing and then signing off. If you play this style, then partner should be obliged to cue below game in case you have a stronger hand. So after 4D, it should go 4H; 4S-p, 4H being a forced cue and 4S showing only a mild slam try, rejected by opener due to the wastage and overall poor hand for spades.

ahydra

Exactly, 4 ♦ has to be a slam try, else a simple 4 ♠ would be bid. But after 4 ♦, responder's hand isn't limited as yet. For all responder knows opener could be bidding 4 ♠ on something like ♠ Jx ♥ Jxx ♦ AQJx ♣ Kxxx and 4 ♠ is the limit. OTOH, if responder holds something like ♠ AKQ10xxx ♥ Q10x ♦ - ♣ KQx, should the auction continue over 4 ♥, but not 4 ♠? I think so, a 5 ♦ cue puts focus on opener's ♣ A if it exists. With OP hand, you reach 6 ♠ opposite this alternative hand.

[Winstonm]

lamford, on 2018-May-19, 15:47, said:

Thanks all. I shall accept the view that I did too much on this one with AKQTxxx Qxx x Qxx and the slam we reached was hopeless. My view at the time was that partner should not cue with QJx in the splinter suit, and I moved on because I was making slam opposite as little as xxx Ax xxx AKxxx. People thought I should splinter and then bid 4S. I will accept the majority view and as Hamman says "Don't play me for perfect cards, I never have them."

I wouldn't be so hard on yourself because the issue with splinters is how you use them - and that means a good deal of discussion and system notes. In my old partnership, I would have rejected the try because once the QJ of diamonds become worthless I don't hold an opening hand - but that is only one was to play splinters.

[lamford]

Winstonm, on 2018-May-20, 13:58, said:

I wouldn't be so hard on yourself because the issue with splinters is how you use them - and that means a good deal of discussion and system notes. In my old partnership, I would have rejected the try because once the QJ of diamonds become worthless I don't hold an opening hand - but that is only one was to play splinters.

I have now agreed with my partner the following structure: 1NT-2x(major)-2M-4x(spl)-
cue = 0-1 points in SPL suit and ace or KQ of cued suit or
cue = max with Axx(x) in SPL suit and ace of cue suit
sign-off: all other hands

[cherdano]

lamford, on 2018-May-20, 17:11, said:

I have now agreed with my partner the following structure: 1NT-2x(major)-2M-4x(spl)-
cue = 0-1 points in SPL suit and ace or KQ of cued suit or
cue = max with Axx(x) in SPL suit and ace of cue suit
sign-off: all other hands

What are you doing Paul?? Surely a 14 hcp hand with ♦Q is better than a 12 hcp hand with ♦J.

The first rule of thumb I learned for splinters opposite limited hands says "We are making slam opposite a working minimum". Obviously you adjust upwards and downwards depending on the amount of space you have, and what a "working minimum" is depends on the quality of your support, the length in the splinter suit, etc. - but I still think it's the best one-sentence rule. Note it implies we aren't going slam hunting opposite a magic working maximum - these are too rare.

Back to the hand, I don't understand the view that we should cue with this hand. We have two trumps. We have only three diamonds. Yes, we have two aces but we also have two dubious jacks. Give partner AKxxxx Kxx x KQx and you end up at the 5-level for no reason.
Also, aces aren't *that* great when neither of us has a long side suit. Opposite Qxx, it's better to have KJx than Axx in that situation.

[ggwhiz]

lamford, on 2018-May-20, 17:11, said:

I have now agreed with my partner the following structure: 1NT-2x(major)-2M-4x(spl)-
cue = 0-1 points in SPL suit and ace or KQ of cued suit or
cue = max with Axx(x) in SPL suit and ace of cue suit
sign-off: all other hands

So splinter is one or zero (I've seen some who splinter with a K or A) and openers cue can be A or KQ. I would take splinters (or self pre-empts) right off the card.

[wank]

ggwhiz, on 2018-May-20, 20:11, said:

So splinter is one or zero (I've seen some who splinter with a K or A) and openers cue can be A or KQ. I would take splinters (or self pre-empts) right off the card.

splinters are great, but like blackwood, they're often abused. that they take up a lot of space doesn't mean you should quit playing them, but it does mean they have to be narrowly defined and used with discipline.

[ggwhiz]

wank, on 2018-May-20, 20:14, said:

splinters are great, but like blackwood, they're often abused. that they take up a lot of space doesn't mean you should quit playing them, but it does mean they have to be narrowly defined and used with discipline.

I guess I would be more in favour of defining what you may splinter with as having an outside Ace or KQ (KJT?) than narrowing down openers responses. Opener is better placed to identify side suit tricks/losers than the splinter hand and to count winners with something like a KQJx in a side suit.

[lamford]

cherdano, on 2018-May-20, 19:34, said:

What are you doing Paul?? Surely a 14 hcp hand with ♦Q is better than a 12 hcp hand with ♦J.

Any quacks in the splinter suit can go in the trash. And xxxx is better than Axxx as the aces are needed in the other suits. On the actual hand my first SIM deal was xxx Ax xxx AKTxx opposite my AKQxxx Qxx x Qxx. Slam was over 80% and my queen of hearts was waste paper. I reject entirely Forrester's claim that I thought I was playing a strong NT. And computer says "no" as well.

I know one swallow does not make a summer, as the interviewer said to Monica Lewinsky, rejecting her application for an accounts clerk. However, that 11-count should cue whereas the heap of filth my partner had with three jacks and QJx of diamonds should not.