[bearmum]

Jlall, on Jul 2 2005, 11:13 AM, said:

Passing XXs generally say "my hand has no clear direction" unless you have agreed otherwise. Do those who say partners pass has made the decision think the same about 1H X XX p? I will bid 2N, scrambling

UNLESS I am going crosseyed - and winebefuddled also - WHY in your example would you not pass XX from P (unless XX was rescue me please p-- in which case you bid again )

But also in my winebefuddled state I really believe the original question where the OPENING bid was a 2 suited bid IS different to a 11-22 one opener and when P redoubles I feel (if for no other reason than to keep partnership trust) I am obliged to pass - TRUST your P ( even if occasionally it doesn't work out - is better than
occasionally[/COLOR]not trusting gets a good result

This is MY personal observation after playing with my husband for ALMOST 40 years


AND let's not forget (for most of us ) it is only a game in the "Grand scheme of things"

[SIZE=7](even if lots of folk disagree lol) which they probably will

[FrancesHinden]

Luckily this is one situation I have discussed with my partner, so I pass.
We have agreed that ANY pass of a redouble shows a desire to play there, with the sole exceptions of 1suit x xx P and 1suit P P x xx P.

It doesn't matter if the redouble showed "values", I am secure in my partnership agreement.

I agree this is an area where your opponents will be better off in a long teams match, because they can find out from reading your convention card in advance what your methods are, and whether they can try out a psychic redouble on you.

There was a hand in Malmo in a match involving England, where Townsend/Gold passed a redouble showing a wish to play there, and neither of them alerted. Partner of the redoubler assumed an un-alerted pass was neutral, and passed expecting the next hand to bid. When the contract was passed out, he claimed MI and called the TD. The TD ruled that pass "to play" was alertable as it was an unexpected meaning of the pass, ruled MI and allowed him to change his call.

The ruling was appealed, and England said that pass = "to play" is the most natural possible meaning of a pass here and so obviously shouldn't be alerted. The AC discovered that the TDs hadn't been able to agree on whether it was alertable or not, and then found that they couldn't decide either, so decided to uphold the TD's ruling as they didn't seem to know any better. In effect, the AC decided that the player who passed, then changed his call when it was passed out, was genuinely surprised by the meaning of pass rather than trying for a double shot, and so under "full disclosure" principles should be allowed to make the call he would have made had he known the opponents' system in depth.

So even the European Championships AC couldn't decide what the standard meaning of pass is in this sort of auction...

p.s. I recognise this hand from another forum...

[Echognome]

This was a hand where I was on the offending side giving MI. I opened the 2♠ hand holding a 6214 shaped hand, whereas partner had a 0553 hand and was trying to rescue. I was totally asleep and alerted XX as "values" rather than "undiscussed" (as this was the first time we were playing together). Advancer (the doubler's partner) asked a whole bunch of questions and then passed. The doubler pulled and then they cried foul when they didn't get the result they wanted. I was trying to see how they should bid if there wasn't MI and also if there wasn't UI. It seems that the doubler should leave in the XX anyway, so I had little sympathy for them.

However, the piece de resistance was when the director came over after the hand and advancer says "my partner would have left the double in had there not been MI." To which almost simultaneously myself and the director said "you can't speak for the actions your partner would take."

Justice prevailed in the end though as they got a decent score out of the board anyway. I learned a lesson of when in doubt, it's ok to say "undiscussed" or "I don't know. Sorry."

Edit: I was the perpetrator of the MI in both. Figured I'd try to figure out the UI aspect in this forum and the laws aspect in the other.