[jillybean]

How is it possible that the USA have a player, Sylvia Shi, representing the country at the WBG while on the list of players on probation? (Corrected)

I also note that 3 teams have been expelled for violating the cell phone in playing area policy.
Switzerland seniors
Morocco mixed
Chile

[awm]

Sylvia Shi has been discussed exhaustively on BridgeWinners. She was suspended for self-kibitzing in online play during Covid, including in ACBL-sanctioned online games. She served out her suspension and was subsequently allowed to play in the team trials and the event.

While there are definitely some who feel her punishment was insufficient, it should be noted that two other high-profile players who admitted cheating in online events during Covid received no suspension or other punishment and are also participating.

As far as the expulsions, the tournament has (and is enforcing) draconian cell phone penalties to prevent cheating. I think we all know older bridge players who don’t know how to turn their phones off… and being on a country’s senior team doesn’t necessarily mean much about technological savvy’

[TMorris]

Even if they don't know how to turn off their phone, which I find hard to understand, they do [presumably) know how to leave them outside the playing arena.

[jillybean]

 awm, on 2024-October-26, 03:36, said:

While there are definitely some who feel her punishment was insufficient, it should be noted that two other high-profile players who admitted cheating in online events during Covid received no suspension or other punishment and are also participating.

When “club players” are being suspended for online cheating , this is alarming. Why isn’t there any uproar about these players?
I’m only sporadically active on BW so may have missed discussion about this.

SS is still on ACBLs list of players on probation (corrected)

[johnu]

 TMorris, on 2024-October-26, 03:52, said:

Even if they don't know how to turn off their phone, which I find hard to understand, they do [presumably) know how to leave them outside the playing arena.

I read that all they had to do was to put their turned off phones on the table they were playing at.

[jillybean]

 awm, on 2024-October-26, 03:36, said:

As far as the expulsions, the tournament has (and is enforcing) draconian cell phone penalties to prevent cheating. I think we all know older bridge players who don’t know how to turn their phones off… and being on a country’s senior team doesn’t necessarily mean much about technological savvy’

I agree, this should come under consideration for other players, whatever law that is. Cellphones are not about cheating.Expulsion is excessive, so too the apparent penalties for time violations., this is World Class Bridge.

As for seniors not knowing how to turn off cellphones , LOL.
Some players are too ignorant but it’s not about age.

[jillybean]

 johnu, on 2024-October-26, 04:29, said:

I read that all they had to do was to put their turned off phones on the table they were playing at.

I wonder what someone was thinking to come up with this idea. Will they make players put their Apple Watch and ear buds on the table too?

[awm]

All electronic devices are to be turned off and placed on plastic netting attached to the screen (or left outside the playing area). In principle they are allowed to search players for contraband devices. I feel like we were given ample warning if this (it was covered in the captains meeting and there are some directors reminding people before the session starts, and the netting itself acts as a reminder).

Anyway this does include Apple Watch. Elianna had to check how to turn hers off before the event!

[awm]

 jillybean, on 2024-October-26, 04:28, said:

When “club players” are being suspended for online cheating , this is alarming. Why isn’t there any uproar about these players?
I’m only sporadically active on BW so may have missed discussion about this.

SS is still on ACBLs list of players not in good standing.

The other players are not American and their cheating was in the online events that went up for elite players during Covid and not under their country’s bridge association auspices. There are some complaints about them but BridgeWinners is very USA-centric. If you are interested the ones I’m referring to are Nowosadski (Poland and now Switzerland) and Lorenzini (France). There may be others too but afaik these two confessed publicly when confronted with evidence.

[paulg]

 jillybean, on 2024-October-26, 03:25, said:

How is it possible that the USA have a player, Sylvia Shi, representing the country at the WBG while on the list of players not in good standing?

Although Sylvia Shi is in the ACBL document of those 'CURRENTLY UNDER DISCIPLINE AS OF October 7, 2024' she is in the section for those under probation.

It is suspended members who are not in good standing, which is a different section of the document.

[diana_eva]

Just for the sake of getting facts right, it is not possible to kibitz any ACBL sanctioned events on BBO. All have kibitzers disallowed - it is is technically impossible for someone to cheat by self-kibbing in an ACBL sanctioned game. And in almost all pay games, generally speaking.

Exceptions are some private clubs (not ACBL) using our platform who intentionally and in full awareness of the risk choose to open their games to kibitzers. However, that is a club decision and not something BBO can force them to use if they empathetically do not want to.

[jillybean]

Thanks for the clarification Diana. We can assume then, the charges were in relation to collusion which some would consider far more serious than self kibitzing. (Retracted)

I’m sure there has been much discussion on BW as to the merits of allowing players suspended for cheating to ever represent their country,

[mikeh]

My understanding is that the expulsions were for ‘repeated’ cellphone violations…..that’s what I heard from our captain. Strangely I can’t seem to be able to open the bulletins…of course I’m not sure if they’d explain anyway. My partner always wears his Apple Watch but didn’t know, at the outset, that it also has to be turned off. As for the netting, it’s by no means a reminder. I use it to hold the opp’s CC unless there’s a convenient side table. Which isn’t always the case. Also my private scorecard and our own CC unless the opp has taken it for the match. There isn’t a lot of space on the table, given the large sliding board and the note paper for asking/answering questions. Personally, I was happier in other WC’s where the policy was simply no cellphones in the playing area…I’ve forgotten my phone (in the netting) twice already….perhaps that explains why I’m in the seniors, not the open

[paulg]

 jillybean, on 2024-October-26, 08:07, said:

Thanks for the clarification Diana. We can assume then, the charges were in relation to collusion which some would consider far more serious than self kibitzing.

From what has been published, this would be an unwarranted assumption.

 jillybean, on 2024-October-26, 08:07, said:

I'm sure there has been much discussion on BW as to the merits of allowing players suspended for cheating to ever represent their country,

As you might imagine, views were extreme and firmly held.

[jdiana]

 diana_eva, on 2024-October-26, 07:58, said:

Just for the sake of getting facts right, it is not possible to kibitz any ACBL sanctioned events on BBO. All have kibitzers disallowed - it is is technically impossible for someone to cheat by self-kibbing in an ACBL sanctioned game. And in almost all pay games, generally speaking.

Exceptions are some private clubs (not ACBL) using our platform who intentionally and in full awareness of the risk choose to open their games to kibitzers. However, that is a club decision and not something BBO can force them to use if they empathetically do not want to.

See https://web2.acbl.or...line/HR_Shi.pdf

[diana_eva]

 jdiana, on 2024-October-26, 10:23, said:

See https://web2.acbl.or...line/HR_Shi.pdf

Sylvia's confession matches what I mentioned. To my knowledge she played some "high level" team matches like OCBL, ALT, or the less prominent Susina 8 teams, or Walt Shaffer's invitational games. None of those are ACBL sanctioned, as far as I'm aware, not that this excuses any of it.

From her confession:

Quote

I self-kibitzed during most events I played online starting in late April through the end of June that allowed kibitzers. No one else knew I was doing this.

I have never cheated or been tempted to cheat in person or in any collusive way online. I have never cheated in any of the ACBL online SYC games, regional games, or club games, or any other games, that I have played in.

[jdiana]

 diana_eva, on 2024-October-26, 11:33, said:

Sylvia's confession matches what I mentioned. To my knowledge she played some "high level" team matches like OCBL, ALT, or the less prominent Susina 8 teams, or Walt Shaffer's invitational games. None of those are ACBL sanctioned, as far as I'm aware, not that this excuses any of it.

From her confession:

I guess I misunderstood. The document says: "Sylvia Shi played in a club team series on BBO. Unlike other ACBL BBO events, kibitzing was possible in this event." I took that to mean that the matches she played in were also ACBL events.

In any event, I'm no expert and I'm sure that whatever she did is no longer possible.

[diana_eva]

 jdiana, on 2024-October-26, 12:00, said:

I guess I misunderstood. The document says: "Sylvia Shi played in a club team series on BBO. Unlike other ACBL BBO events, kibitzing was possible in this event." I took that to mean that the matches she played in were also ACBL events.

In any event, I'm no expert and I'm sure that whatever she did is no longer possible.

Sure sounds like it, but BBO did not organize anything like that and it seems very unlikely that an ACBL club had the ability to run free teams with kibs allowed and process them for ACBL masterpoints.

[awm]

My impression was that ACBL felt they had jurisdiction to penalize Sylvia because some of her self-kibitzing was in ACBL events. If this was not the case, one must ask why other players who confessed self-kibitzing in OCBL and Alt and the like were not penalized by ACBL (while they are not US residents they do participate in NABCs with some regularity).

[bluenikki]

 awm, on 2024-October-26, 06:07, said:

All electronic devices are to be turned off and placed on plastic netting attached to the screen (or left outside the playing area).

Most hearing aids now have bluetooth.